I was recently interviewed by Sean Plummer for the Canadian horror film magazine Rue Morgue. Sections of that interview was used for Plummer’s piece on Anton LaVey and his legacy, and the issue in question can be acquired HERE!
To read the interview in its entirety, please read on.
CARL ABRAHAMSSON / RUE MORGUE
What does the word “Satan” mean to you now? And how has that word’s significance evolved for you over the years?
From having been a term that I used ”mechanically”, i.e. via someone else’s definition, I now look at it as a hugely important psychological cluster/complex which always takes on immense historical proportions. Satan is an overall term for a mechanism that makes the world move onwards. For me, the Jungian ”Shadow” is very tied in with this. The more someone represses his own shadow, the more he will live in an ”adversarial neurosis” which means living in a dualistically simplified world-view guided by fear. Satan’s main job is to fuck that up, and is thereby a hugely important energy in human culture. One could look at Satan as an ambassador of human intelligence and ingenuity if you will. The ones suffering from adversarial neurosis as a result of denying their own shadow could – and should – be looked at as mere utilitarian components.
Are you still a member of the Church of Satan?
Yes.
In what ways does LaVeyan Satanism remain relevant to your life from the time you first became interested in it? Has your relationship to LaVeyan Satanism evolved or changed over time?
It has evolved from a youthful interest in all-round ”occult” and weird phenomena to a deeper kind of philosophy and psychology that I’m actively working with on many personal levels.
You met Dr. LaVey several times. What was your impression of the man?
The first time around I was probably just awestruck. After all, I was a fan and suddenly all doors were opened. I also met Kenneth Anger for the first time on that same trip in 1989. It was a bit of a mindblower. On later visits to the Black House I just felt privileged and very inspired. We talked about things, watched movies, rode around in his black Jaguar and also had great dinners out. Both LaVey and Blanche Barton were very supportive, for instance when it came to my newly started The Fenris Wolf journal. It was fun, and I always went back home to Sweden super-inspired.
Dr. LaVey became a cultural bogeyman, but there was a sense of humour about what he did. How important is humour to his work?
It was important, but one mustn’t forget that there is a lot of seriousness underneath the surface. If one constantly stresses the humour, that in many ways belittles the substance that was there. However, the opposite is true too, and that’s why LaVey himself stressed the humour. He hated being looked at with pretentious ”occultnik” eyes. Satanic bully-exposing requires a genuine sense of humour. Taking on historically outcasted energies or persons requires a great sense of humour too. But it’s not merely an added feature; it’s a fully integrated magical concept.
Your company TRAPART published California Infernal which documented the relationship between Dr. LaVey and Jayne Mansfield. And your band White Stains produced a song called “Sweet Jayne.” Describe your interest in that relationship, between LaVey and Mansfield.
It all came together somehow. I was very interested in occult history, and also in American trash culture. Jayne Mansfield was queen of a certain kind of B-comedies, and I loved her. LaVey was king of the American hill in regard to magic and contemporary magical philosophy. When I read about how they had actually hung out together, it really flipped my lid. That’s why I wrote ”Sweet Jayne”, and that record became my ticket to the Black House.
It has been claimed that they had a sexual relationship. That has been disputed, as have lots of other “facts” about LaVey’s life. Does truth matter when it comes to mythmaking? And certainly Anton LaVey was all about mythmaking.
In LaVey’s case, I’d say there’s truth enough. Not everything stemmed from his imagination, as some critics like to imply. When certain people lead very colorful, larger-than-life lives, certain other people are very likely to be disgruntled and envious. Take a look at California Infernal… Did Jayne and LaVey hang out? Yes. Several times? Yes. Does it seem likely that they had sex, given their track records and life-enhancing approaches? Most definitely.
What significant misconceptions do people have about Anton LaVey?
That he wasn’t ”for real” or ”serious”. My experience was that he was nothing but that. He was just too creative for the people he called ”occultniks”, which is OK. Stratification happens; it’s natural. Those who won’t or can’t get into something deeper than face- or rumor value are always the first ones to complain and denigrate.
How would you describe Anton LaVey’s legacy on both the larger culture and on the world of the occult?
Just recently, I watched an interview with Werner Herzog in which he talked about the internet and technology in general. Artificial human companions were mentioned as a definite thing in the near future. I’m sure most of LaVey’s predictions will see the light of day. But it could also have been him sensing things in the Zeitgeist of course, and then rolling with that. In a similar way, one could say that Idiocracy is a humorous film by the creator of Beavis & Butthead. But who could ever foresee that it would turn out to be pure prophecy? Regardless of Mike Judge’s intention, he is now a prophet.
The term ‘witch’ has resurfaced in the culture these last few years and is more acceptable than ever. Do you think the term Satanist will ever be rehabilitated? Why or why not?
First of all I don’t think it matters much to Satanists, because they should be preoccupied with more important things than their public image or that of Satanism as a movement. If people attack you on an individual level, for being a Satanist or any other reason, then you deal with that. It’s individual. On a larger scale though, Satanism as such (a ”think tank construct” encouraging individualism and life enhancement) could be threatened, among other fringe groups and movements, by Draconian monoculture. That’s when ”Satanism” could become a viable thing to fight for: a fierce appreciation of all aspects of individual liberty.
Before the Internet, The Satanic Bible was the main way ideas about Satanism spread. Now we have blogs, websites, message boards. What is the ongoing relevance of LaVey’s ideas as expressed in The Satanic Bible?
I’d say the ideas and messages are as relevant as ever. They were there before The Satanic Bible was out, but that book certainly helped define and codify a very useful umbrella. That this umbrella now has many shapes and sizes is inevitable.
What do you miss about Dr. LaVey?
The actual presence. Listening to him playing music. Watching movies. And talking about interesting things, most of which weren’t traditionally ”occult” at all.
Was there any advice or wisdom he passed along to you that was especially meaningful?
On an inspirational level, there were either between-the-lines-hints or very concrete advice. Like him getting out a copy of Ben Hecht’s A Guide for the Bedeviled and reading to me from it, rather than the more obvious Fantazius Mallare. That was a stroke of genius in terms of ”programming” or inspiring me. Hecht’s versatility and writing zest has since then been very important to me – and this is now almost 30 years ago. LaVey talked about his concepts and ideas and that was interesting in itself. But the conversations also inherently stressed the importance of creating new magical ideas and techniques; of taking things further but always filtered through your own individual kinks and delights. That kind of conceptual creativity affected me a lot. Actually being there to see/hear how he used music was also important for me, as I was a budding magico-musician at the time. He was simply very good at sowing seeds. Sometimes in very clear, practical examples, and sometimes by displaying a literally infernal gleaming in his eyes. All of this affected me.
California Infernal – Anton LaVey & Jayne Mansfield as portrayed by Walter Fischer can be ordered HERE!
